What do you guys think about the SNC Lavalin stuff?

Discussion in 'Reality Check' started by Boots, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. Boots

    Boots
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    From what I've read about it, I don't really feel like it's as big a deal as it's playing out in the media. Maybe I'm just desensitized with the trainwreck going on in the US? What do you think about it?
     
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  2. Wayne

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    Never heard of it, cliffs?
     
  3. Boots

    Boots
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    Really? How could you have missed it? It's been frontpage news for weeks :eek3:
     
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  4. Gooch

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    For the first time I actually respect Justin.
    When you are in that role sometimes you need to bend ethics a bit to make sure this country prospers. The world is a fucked up place with lots of very bad people in power. A boy scout is going to get run over very quickly on the world stage.
    Hoping he continues to grow some balls and does what needs to be done in order for our economy to steam ahead.
    Yeah I'm a capitalist.
     
  5. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    And clearly a Liberal.

    I've been waiting for RC to spark the conversation on this, wanted to start it myself but as a Conservative when RC is vastly populated with bleeding heart card carrying Liberals, I knew I'd likely get shut down.

    But without bringing my political views into the fold, I can say that as an Albertan, this entire thing is not flying well at all as this is burning proof that Trudeau doesn't give two fucks about Albertan jobs and only cares about Ontario east. Really I guess who can blame him? He won't get a vote out here, and is still the Golden boy out there.

    Meanwhile, Alberta is going through a huge economic downturn losing jobs left and right, he won't bend the rules or help out with the industry that pays every other province and continues to tax tax tax, but whoa, SNC Lavelin is in danger of shutting down and is a Quebec company... Whoa, better help them. Doesn't matter that they performed hugely shady acts, funded ghadafi parties, partook in numerous illicit operations, etc. Nah, let's get them a DPA and pressure the attorney general mafia style. It's all in the name of respect!

    I watched his statement today. He is the poster boy for not answering questions and dancing around them. He built his house of cards on feminist views, and bullied a woman. He's a hypocrite and actor. Rolled up his sleeves and loosened the tie to turn the view away from this scandal and to climate change. People are calling him on it left and right. Rex Murphy's article was great.

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationa...u-you-owe-this-country-a-real-explanation/amp

    The two women that resigned hold a lot more credibility than he does. They provided one key thing that he and Butts did not. Evidence. That holds weight with me.

    Additionally, when asked today "Why should the Canadian people trust you and what you say over what Raybould Wilson or Philpot has said?". He again, danced around the question and said "blah blah uhhhh we are looking out for Canadian Jobs." Bull shit.
    Thank you, next?

    Good luck come October is all I can say.
     
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  6. Gooch

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    Why would you think i am liberal? Like i said this is the first thing justin has done that i think is good.
     
  7. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    Saying you respect him, and hoping he "continues". Not something a Conservative would typically say. :lol:
     
  8. Gooch

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    You have obviously not read my other posts about him
    I hate the guy.
    I clearly said this is the first time I respect something he did.
     
  9. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    No, I haven't seen your other posts on it, so I do apologise if I mis-spoke.

    I am very passionate about this subject as I hate the guy too and how his policies and changes have affected my family and our lives.
     
  10. Boots

    Boots
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    I'd be shocked if any Albertan had anything good to say about Trudeau. It's definitely shitty that oil & gas are in a downturn but I don't think it matters who the PM is, that's hard to control. I watched his speech today too and while it was a bit late, it seemed reasonable. It did bother me that he was leaving there to go apologize to someone else though. I've had about enough of our government apologizing to everyone for things that happened in the past lol
     
  11. Scott

    rawr

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    Didn't he kinda buy a pipeline to help Alberta? I mean its been a shit show, mostly because of BC, but the effort to do something was there.

    I am also unsure in what other policies and changes he has made that has affected alberta jobs as we don't tend to get a lot of that news here.

    what I hate about the whole SNC thing is how some are making it a men vs women issue and such. Typical men pressured a women to do something.
     
  12. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    Really? Carbon tax much? And bought a pipeline that no one I know wanted them to buy. As soon as we heard about that, we all predicted that would be the end. He pissed 5 billion down the drain.

    Worst prime minister in Canadian history. In my opinion.
     
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  13. Scott

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    Well the carbon tax is sorta a Canada wide thing. All I saw online was folks screaming at him to get the pipeline deal done. When it fell though, he was criticized for that.

    But again, what policy changes have affected Alberta?and I'm not trying to be a smart ass, legit question.
     
  14. 17

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    SNC Lavalin is not in any danger of shutting down. They’re huge. They’ll lose a metric fuck ton of revenue and jobs will be lost for sure, but SNC isn’t going anywhere.

    And I agree with GoochGooch. SNC did some super shady things but Trudeau is trying to soften the blow to protect jobs. Is it ethical? Not 100%.

    So they call for him to resign? Who’s the alternative? Scheer? Dude is a religious nut job with 0 grasp on reality and less personality. Bernier? Maybe in the future but the PPC is too new to be a contender. All they’ve done is split conservative votes. The NDP will never get anywhere on the federal stage and their party is pretty much collapsing with hardly any representation. Our political climate right now is the perfect storm for Trudeau to stay in power come October.
     
  15. LMAC

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    election year, so watch for all the promises coming..

    everyone is going to try to use this against them
     
  16. Wayne

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    After educating myself on the subject, this is 100% my opinion.
     
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  17. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    It is a Canada wide thing yes, and it directly affects Albertans.
    My energy bill has gone from $90/month for gas to $240 a month average for gas in the last year. Consumption has stayed the same. We now pay a "delivery fee" of 80-120 varying and other fees.
    This can most definitely be chalked to carbon tax.
    Bill C-69 is extremely controversial and has been a knife in the energy industrys gut.
    Keystone XL has been stalled and held up under his government. Northern gateway has been stalled and held up. Trans mountain has been stalled and held up.
    All of this has caused production to slow, and since pipelines cannot be built, we can't move our oil and get it to market.
    Now there is a production cap (Notleys doing) which has helped a little bit in regards to oil prices. But they are still pitiful.
    Since pipelines construction has haulted, there have been massive layoffs at CNRL, Suncor,the syncrude etc. The seismic industry is almost non existent.
    There are protests everywhere, massive convoys heading to Ottawa to protest bill c-69 and the current government policies that are killing the energy sector in Alberta.
    Don't even start me on the deficits. We won't see a balanced budget now until my kids are in their thirties. I have family in the military, and they curse his name. They enjoyed the role they had, now they barely get to do any training. Their gear is terrible as they were supposed to get new, but the liberals killed that. (personal kit, not talking about the cf18 acquisition, that's another thing entirely.)
    He killed the tax credit for transit, which my wife used.
    He killed income sharing come tax time, which my family used.
    Oh what's this? Now that he's basically killed foreign relations with China our canola industry is being affected. Where does a lot of Canada's canola come from? Alberta.

    And the guy can't even apologize.

    Fuck Trudeau.

    17, you make some good points in some of your perspective, but according to nation wide pols, Scheer would be elected if the election was held tomorrow. He's got 40% of the nation's vote right now. Trudeau is at 30% while the rest make up the change.

    Perfect storm to keep him in power? Nope. I think not.
     
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  18. Boots

    Boots
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    First off, I 100% understand why you'd be be angry/scared/etc with your livelihood being threatened. That's not cool at all. Unfortunately, you're witnessing the downside to having your entire economy propped up by a single industry. It's sad that while the big dollars were flowing around freely for the last few decades that nothing was saved for a rainy day and industry wasn't more diversified to things that wouldn't get sucked down when the bottom fell out of oil and gas. Didn't you guys have a conservative government during that time? They sure dropped the ball there. What about the oil and gas companies that generated massive amounts of profits in your province. Now that things are down are they using those profits to help better the situation? Doubtful. With the world shifting to green energy and renewables rapidly, I'd expect things to get worse, not better. Obviously there will always be a place for oil and gas but I would think it's going to be much, much lower than what it was a few years ago. I'm no Trudeau superfan by any means but I think he makes an easy scapegoat in a situation like this.
     
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  19. briangtiguy

    beer beer beer

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    As far as trying to save jobs in Alberta, it wouldn't matter who is in power, they are not going to be able to change the price of oil.

    I think the whole thing SNC bit is being blown out of proportion, if it was in fact such a big deal, why are we only hearing about it now and not back in September when all of this was allegedly taking place?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  20. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    It's a shitty time to be in Alberta Steve, I'm from Halifax, only been in Alberta for 5 almost 6 years now. So I'm no native to Alberta. But I can tell you l love this province and have adopted it, will likely never move back to NS. Just because of the way this province has treated me. I doubled my salary coming here.

    I'm not an oil and gas worker, (I'm a firefighter) but I have many friends and family who are. I've seen half of my friends/family lose their livelihoods since Trudeau has been in power.

    You can say yes, the downturn started while under the Conservative government. But so did the recession, which was North America, not just Canada. It was in no fault to anyone's government. It's how the government responded to the problem that mattered

    The oil downturn is not the governments fault. So just to be clear, I don't fault Trudeau for the oil downturn. Yes, we do need to rely less on oil, and we do need to work on alternative energy sources. But we don't need to tax oil to death and make it harder to produce it.

    We are in an economic downturn, yes. But under the Conservative government, there were plans to bring us out of it. He'll, we basically eliminated the deficit. There were pipelines being built to get our oil to market. It was still a strong and thriving industry. Canada is a world player when it comes to oil. We don't need to rely on other oil coming in. Our oil is higher grade, cleaner, and it's in our backyard. Why are we bringing in oil from foreign markets to feed Canadians? Oh right, because it's cheaper.

    Conservative government recognized that and was building pipelines to make our oil more accessible to Canadian markets and to ship it worldwide. Which would help build our economy and bring the costs of producing it down. This also was creating jobs.

    Trudeau? Nah, fuck that. He mothballed the pipelines, killed the plans to invest in Canadian oil and keeps the foreign oil flowing into our country. He kicked it while it was down by creating a carbon tax and introduction of bill c-69. He made the problem worse.

    Green, renewable energy you argue? Yeah, that's important. But what good is it if we can't afford it? Our countries deficit has ballooned. We are losing jobs left and right, business is leaving our country, farmers and oil workers are becoming a thing of the past. It's becoming ridiculously expensive just to heat your house.

    You can tell me it's all good, we are creating jobs in other industries. Adapt to the change! we are planning on green energy, climate change is our enemy, blah blah blah. But what good is that when you're a country that's left the stage of being a heavy hitter to taking hand outs just to eat. But hey, weed? That's legal.

    What good is that when you're a country that relies on it's natural resources to feed and fuel itself, to fill it's wallet through trade?
    You and Wayne and others may be safe in your positions of IT related income. But the vast majority of the country is not. It's time to think about the bigger picture. You can sit back and feel comfortable as you have job security. So do I. But I can honestly say I am scared. Not for me. For my kids. And their kids. Because of this government my kids lost the tax rebate for schooling. They lost the tax rebate for public transit. They lost income sharing. And they inherited what I think is the largest deficit our country has ever had. (If I'm wrong, I stand corrected, but it will likely only get bigger and maybe I'll become right). All for what? A couple solar panels on my roof?

    Sure Trudeau isn't responsible for a hurting industry in the oil sector. But he is responsible for the Canadian people and how they rely on it. He needs to fix the problem. Not ignore it.

    It's like saying "I'm sorry you have a broken leg, but look over here, it's a scooter that runs on batteries!". That's cool and all, but you can't ride a scooter with a broken leg.
     
  21. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    It does matter who's in power. Build the pipelines, make it accessible and able to trade, price goes up, cost of production goes down. It's supply demand.

    As far as mocking oil workers, that's pretty petty and low. Sure people are asking for a boom, they made more money. That's no different than if suddenly your job was skyrocketing in pay and then it plummeted. You'd enjoy the higher pay more than when you were scraping the bottom of a barrel.
    There's always people that blow their money and those that manage it. But there's nothing wrong with remeniscing about the good times.

    I never could wrap my head around the ignorance of people who mock the oil workers. There's a vast amount of east coasters who came to Alberta. Myself included. I was sick and tired of just getting by back in Nova Scotia. I wanted more out of life. So I came to a province where the grass was greener. In the same job I was doing back in Nova Scotia. (Literally the same job) I went from making $18/hr to making $36. I literally doubled my salary. The cost of living is basically the same as Nova Scotia. My comfort and quality of life changed. And I'm sure my wife and kids are happier.
    Now I'm working my dream job and glad I made the changes. Even firefighters make on average 20,30k more per year out here.
    It doesn't mean Nova Scotia is worse than Alberta. It doesn't make Alberta a better province. Alberta doesn't have the ocean, it doesn't have fisheries. It doesn't have the tourist market, it doesn't have the ports. We would rely on the ports in Nova Scotia and BC to help us with trade for oil and canola. And other things. BC has coal. It's all on the grand scale. We all need each other. Why? We are all Canadians.
    So take your thumb out of your ass and think of the bigger picture, instead of pissing on oil workers.
     
  22. briangtiguy

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    I see plenty of them who have pissed away a lifetime's worth of money, and now are crying poor.

    So wait, pipelines... Didn't you just say about how the government spent too much on a pipeline that no one wants? What is it?
     
  23. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    Not that no one wants. That nobody wanted the government to buy.
     
  24. briangtiguy

    beer beer beer

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    Also the thumb out of my ass bit and thinking about the bigger picture... Since I clearly don't know what I'm talking about, maybe you could clarify some things related to the high quality oil being produced there. So it's of a higher quality, how does that relate to the environment impact of the production of it? You also said about supply and demand at one point right? If we can get more of our oil to market would that increase or decrease it's value?
     
  25. briangtiguy

    beer beer beer

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    Well if it is in fact so great for everyone wouldn't it make sense for the people of the country to own it?
     
  26. Boots

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    No need to piss on anyone's choice of profession or how they manage their incomes. Nova Scotia was in Alberta's shoes at one point when coal bottomed out. You'd think at some point we'd learn that not everything good lasts forever.
     
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  27. briangtiguy

    beer beer beer

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    It was more so directed at the entire province, not one job in particular.
     
  28. Arod

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    If anything it is time for Alberta to learn that you can't base an entire economy on a natural resource with a finite supply that can swing wildly in value due to factors outside of its control. They should have learned the lesson that Nova Scotia is still paying for, and will be for a long time to come.

    That being said isn't the pipeline project still with the courts awaiting approval? It isn't as if the government bought it to shut it down. The federal courts are the reason why it has been held up. I have also heard the expansion could start in BC this summer if all goes well. Its a very complicated issue with thousands of moving parts. You can't just decide to built/expand a pipeline and have it start overnight.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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  29. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    Brian, I'm not gonna debate with you dude. You're just being an arrogant dick. I'm proud of Nova Scotia, I'm proud of Alberta, and I'm proud to be Canadian. You on the other hand, just seem to be disgruntled.
     
  30. 17

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    Polls are meaningless, if you want to relect back to the 2016 US election. A 10% variation in POLLED voters is hardly anything to bank on. The liberals wont have a landslide like 2015, but I dont think we're going to see a PC majority this time around either.

    I dont agree with everything he does, I probably would consider myself a centrist rather than a full fledged liberal.

    I think killing all these tax credits are the wrong move.

    I think him not delivering on electoral reform is a shitty thing. It would have spoke volumes if he got rid of the FPP system, but he didnt, because he knows it will work in his favor for term 2.

    I think his national/international apology tour is a waste of time and money. Who cares about apologizing for something he wasnt even in office for. Lets find a better use of time.

    But I have even less faith in Scheer honestly.
     
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  31. Boots

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  32. briangtiguy

    beer beer beer

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    You seemed to have plenty to say until I asked a few questions? You seem to have assumed that I was simply mocking oil field workers, but I wasn't. The wages of almost everyone in Alberta appear to significantly inflated.

    Maybe I'm misinformed about the pollution being created in relation to the money being made? If I am, well that's great. And if not, well have fun drinking oil.
     
  33. 17

    17
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    In the past year I've hired 4 guys. 1 to replace someone and 3 because of expansion, with another 1 I'll pull the trigger on next week and 1 more by end of year. These are all ~$60,000/yr jobs.

    Our growth is directly related to new companies and new jobs being established, and we've doubled our revenue in the past 4 years, and have already passed our yearly projections with 3 months left of the FY
     
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  34. Grifter

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    Good post.

    I do take faith in polls. In Canada. Haha. Not the US though! :lol: That election was great popcorn entertainment .
    Everything else you said falls in line with my thoughts.

    Brian, the fact that it seemed like a whim to snag voters when they purchased the pipeline and gave up on it so quickly? It's a joke. Nobody in MY circles thought it was a good idea and the immediate failure proved our thoughts to be fair. It wasn't necessary for him to buy the pipeline, it was necessary for the government to make it happen! Buying it with tax payers dollars was furthest from what needed to happen. What needed to happen was get the thing built! Get the approvals, it didn't matter who owned it!

    It's not like I'm sitting here waving a save the oil flag. I'm simply saying he doesn't give a flying fuck about oil and proves it on a regular basis.
    He doesn't care about Alberta jobs, but when shit goes down in Quebec? Pulls out all the stops.
     
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  35. boing

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