Monthly Awesome November nonsense

Discussion in 'Reality Check' started by C. Mike Hunt, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    I'm not taking it that way. You're making some good counter rebuttal. It's nice to have a conversation like this where we aren't attacking each other's views. Some of my points have been muddied by other things that frustrate me coming up. Honestly I'm finding this cathartic.

    That being said, what I said is my opinion. I'm glad Boing isn't hanging me out to dry all alone. Most of the time on RC lately I have felt alone, what with the election stuff I was engaging in.

    But, I should know better than to speak what I deem the truth or my opinion around here. This place is definitely far more Liberal than I am and also far more Today than Yesterday. Ya bunch of snowflakes! :lol:
     
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  2. Wayne

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    First off I want to applaud your parents for your upbringing, you were raised to the same standards I was and I still stand by them. Interestingly enough that is why I am so liberal. I want to help everybody that isn't as successful as me, I want to take care of the planet. I love to be successful and live a good life but I don't give a shit about money in general. I would give away my money in my wallet I worked all day for to help somebody suffering in front of me.

    Now none of that means anything to this debate, just interesting how two people who sound like they have the same moral standing and upbringing can be so far apart socially in politics. I have no doubt you and I would get along fantastic in person.

    I understand the pussification argument, Canada (among many other countries) has turned into the offended generation. People are so brave to call people out online for every little discretion, feel good about themselves, it's pathetic. I have a serious love/hate relationship with technology and how it's changed the world for this reason.

    However, each day I have to pick and choose the things I consider gone too far. I am liberal but I don't live and die by my party, I don't make it a mission to trash opposing views on the internet. Don Cherry had to go because of the sum of his comments over a very long time, where this time he was just a little more over the line than others. I am not hear to trash Don Cherry, I was a fan, and I don't think at heart he was that out of line..but he was out of line enough.

    I guess my point is this, many people shitting on Cherry are doing it to be part of the social justice club and that's too bad, but some of us just believe sadly it was time to draw the line in the sand.
     
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  3. boing

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    I just get tired of trying to explain to a bunch of liberals how their political correctness is ruining this country. it's that simple and on here it really is like talking to a wall and I have a hard time explaining myself most days now (meds and medical stuff) so I just keep quiet.
    Liberals think they can just let all these people just walk into our country and get free room and board and we can spend billions on other countries when we need to get our own house in order first. Trudeau is doing exactly what his father did except he is spending way more and putting us in a bigger hole and there is no end in sight. It is terrifying, I bet none of you remember the mortgage rates in the 80's after trudeau sr's spending spree? well they were in the 20% range let that sink in for a while and recalculate your payment.
    Anybody miss Harper yet?
    I know I do
     
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  4. HairyAss

    Cheese on Toast

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    From what I’ve been able to tell, “pussification/political correctness” all boils down to folks being upset that they can’t continue spouting (sometimes borderline) racist/homophobic/misogynistic views without backlash.
     
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  5. Cheddar

    Red is the New Green

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    I'm really getting tired of this political bullshit. Who the fuck identifies with a party and then aligns their beliefs to the party afterwards? If you as a party member feel that a single moral/ethical/national belief identifies their political alignment and subsequently forces them to absorb every belief of that party, I'm sorry but that's simply moronic. Almost as dumb as pretending calling someone a liberal or conservative is some sort of insult. I guarantee that they knew they were before you met them and they probably aren't embarrassed about it.

    Also, Grifter, I would still like to know which way you would have gone with Trudeau and Cherry to avoid the double standard. Fire them both, or exonerate both?
     
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  6. Grifter

    Bluh?

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    Hairy, That I don't agree with. I've said already that I agree, there is a line. I don't believe you should be able to be an outright asshole and get away with it.

    I do believe that people can misinterpret things. I think that's what happened here.

    You've made some points that have shed some perspective. But I still don't like the way things are going/where they are headed. I look at our national anthem... It doesn't apply anymore. In my opinion. You said it's because of the me too movement. Sure... That is true. I'm okay with the me too movement. There's a lot of positivity that came of that. But for the anthem, it's also the God part that people want to change. I draw a line there.
    Schools are ceasing playing the national anthem in the morning. That I draw a line on.

    It's not "I don't like it because it's different.". To me it's... "I don't like it because it shits on everything I believe in.".

    There are always going to be changes that are necessary. I'm good with that. But when you change it for a reason that's pathetic and not valid? That I have a problem with.

    For example... I started my career as a full time firefighter in Halifax. I was layed off shortly after the recession hit. They layed of 18 full time firefighters strictly based on seniority, the last 18 guys hired. I was lucky number 17. So close!

    3 months after they layed us off, they did 2 designated recruitments. First was for people of ethnic backgrounds. White men were not allowed to apply. The union fought this hard. Because they called it a diversity campaign for HRM.

    Next, they did a designated recruitments for ethnic backgrounds and women. Again, white males were not allowed to apply.

    Again. The union fought it. And a few years later, all the chiefs that were involved in this fucking joke were fired. So I got some justice.

    Now to me, the reason I'm so angry about that still, more than 10 years later... Is because I tried hard and spent alot of money to get hired by Halifax hire. Passed a multitude of tests to get on, jumped through hoops. But, to me, I don't give a flying fuck what colour you are, where you come from, if your a dude, if you're a chick. I don't give two shits. But you better be able to do the job. You better be able to pull my ass out of a fire if I go down.

    For both recruitments, they lowered the standards I had to pass to get hired. They didn't have to spend as much money. They didn't have to go to as many meetings, as many psychological evaluations. Hell they didn't even have to pass a physical evaluation to the same standards I did. They didn't have to do as many laps, as many push ups, sit ups. What the fuck?

    A standard is set. For a reason. End of story. We can't have double standards. I know a couple of you may think I'm being contradictory when I'm comparing Trudeau to Cherry. But to me, I'm not. I've stated multiple times I do not believe Cherry was being racist. I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself.

    Cheddar, I've already daid what id do above. If you don't like my answer, I really don't care. Again, I don't think what he said was racist.

    And again, I don't think I deserve the position of power to be casting such judgement, so why are you asking me twice?
     
  7. HairyAss

    Cheese on Toast

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    Hey, Grifter - a couple of things.

    The anthem being changed had nothing to do with the metoo movement. The metoo movement was all about sexual assaults, especially by people in power.

    I’m glad to hear God being in the anthem is important to you because (I’m assuming) of your religious beliefs. I’m an atheist. Does this make you more Canadian than me?

    I actually don’t care if the anthem changes to remove God. It doesn’t offend me. But it doesn’t represent me.

    As for your firing and then the debacle around hiring. That sucks - no idea what it has to do with Don Cherry being fired but can understand why you’re angry. It does sound like someone somewhere realized mistakes were made. Mistakes always happen along the way when changes happen.

    In no world I’ve ever lived in are you at a disadvantage being a white male, though.
     
  8. Cheddar

    Red is the New Green

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    Hey Grifter, I didn't see your reply amongst everything else, but from the looks of it, you're saying you would have turfed Trudeau, and saved Cherry, but that doesn't make sense. That's back to that same double standard you mentioned at the very beginning, the only thing is it favours your political views. So I'm not following that.

    And before you label me as a liberal, I was at the local Remembrance day ceremonies. And I almost fucking lost it when during the National Anthem the guy leading it went quiet at "God keep our land". I had to keep playing it over and over in my head only to realize he wasn't taking a breath or something, he intentionally left it out and actually just extended the word "keep". So I hear it, turn to the wife, give her an "WTF was that look", then I tried to rationalize it, but I'm not having any luck. Here I am at a ceremony honoring thousands of men (for the most part), many who at their last moments in that time only had god to ask for help, and probably did, and we are using it to take some sort of, i don't want to offend anyone that has absolutely no idea of what horrors they were going through, in a time undoubtedly more conservative and religious than today. But the best part, or worst I guess, is after that, after they exclude the word god from the Anthem, they then invite someone up to say the Lord's Prayer. What the hell?? There's your double standard! And its not about "pussification" as you put it. Its about people not thinking. Its about not using logic, which brings me back full circle to where I started off about your initial comment. Sometimes things get linked together in our minds when they have no bearing on each other, or are entirely disconnected, but we link them to prove a point.
    Trudeaus actions at those parties, and I think you have to agree, were most likely not the case of someone with a dislike towards immigrants. It shows poor judgement and perhaps a lack of thinking, but I'm quite sure if you were to compare those instances which his actions of today towards immigrants, you'd be pretty hard to build a case against him as someone who is racist towards immigrants.
    Cherry's comments likewise were poorly worded too. Do I think that he gets home everyday and complains about the different ethnic groups coming to Canada? Nope. I think he got so caught up in his affection for veterans, that he mouth moved faster than his brain could think. The problem though is he didn't get an opportunity to be evaluated by the country like Trudeau did. He was a victim of capitalism. A few people complained, as could be expected. Sponsors had to cover their ass. They had two choices, either speak out against what he said, or be viewed as being complacent and in agreement with whatever he was being accused of saying. There was no 3rd choice. They had to speak out, and when they did that, Cherry's bosses were left with two choices. Keep Cherry, or keep their sponsors/advertisers; their hands were tied. Once again, logic was thrown out the window, and people's first inclination was to just gathering the wagons, and protecting their own ass.
    We have adopted a "You're either all in, or all out" mindset. We have no tolerance for non binary situations. Its a 1 or a 0. You're either a liberal or a conservative, and there is no middle ground, and if you're not like me you're wrong. You're either a racist or your not, there's no third category for those that aren't but don't think before they act, or those that are, but are extremely careful/lucky to not be caught acting or saying the wrong thing.
    People are looking for reasons to be upset. Remember that Rainbow Poppy thing? It wasn't even a thing, but people were so in a rush to get up in arms, that they immediately had to take a stand to voice their opinion, even when it wasn't needed. We seem to have an intrinsic need to let everyone know how angry we are about other people getting angry.
     
  9. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

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    I totally get you not agreeing with Don Cherry being fired (I don't agree either) but how you've somehow related this whole thing to Trudeau is some impressive mental gymnastics. The election is over, Trudeau is our Prime Minister. Time to move on and try to make things work.
     
  10. Gooch

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    It is crazy how shit like this can divide a country haha
    I just do not give a fuck. I don't give a fuck about anything. Nothing offends me....because I just don't care what other people do, say, or believe. I just stop being involved with them if they are shitty humans.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  11. Duggan

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    It is all probably to divert our attention for some shitty bill that is being passed that will effect our future in a serious way. :tinfoil:
     
  12. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

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    I think 'dividing a country' is a bit of an overstatement. I doubt the average Canadian gives a shit. It's the social media pitchfork crew that causes all this nonsense.
     
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  13. HairyAss

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    You can call it the social media pitchfork crew but there are more people talking about this than there were (arguably) about the results of the election. At the very least, more people seem to be upset.
     
  14. Gooch

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    Exactly!
     
  15. Duggan

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    It is definitely the topic of conversation among our peers, it is sad this is seemingly getting more coverage than the election results. Coverage might be the wrong word, but traction certainly fits. I think Don was past his best before date. He was out of touch, but I think his message, less "you people" wasn't far off. If he had said "everyone", new to Canada or not, then continued his rant, it would have been fine.
     
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  16. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

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    Yep but social media amplifies the voices of the minority just because they make the most noise online.
     
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  17. Duggan

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    It's not dissimilar to the old adage where if you have a good experience you might tell one person, but a bad experience you will tell 10.
     
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  18. Boots

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    yep and combine that with everyone being mistaken in thinking they have some kind of inherent right to not be offended and you have our current situation.
     
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  19. boing

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    No it's the two sided bullshit that goes on where one side is strung up and the other is let off with no consequences
    There are different standards "political correctness" for two different groups
    As for the pussification well that's just the way it sounds where everyone gets a trophy and needs a safespace in case they get scared at the mall or while studying at the library


    That should cover it for tonight.
     
  20. Boots

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    boingboing you only went back 20 years to find something to shit on Trudeau about. If you go back another decade or so you can probably catch him up in some schoolyard bullying :rofl:
     
  21. Duggan

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    Now we have some lady who is on a CTV show spouting off about hockey players and how they are privileged white boys, who are bullies and their parents should keep their kids out of hockey and go on a trip with the money instead.
     
  22. Boots

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    We are all doomed lol
     
  23. Duggan

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    She won't lose her job, I don't really think she should. But I do think they should force her to replace Don on coaches corner this week.
     
  24. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

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    ahahahaha
     
  25. HairyAss

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    I don’t think it happening 20 years ago makes it irrelevant. The problem in this case is that the reporter didn’t want to continue pressing charges. For whatever reason, she backed off. In our innocent until proven guilty law system, there isn’t much else that can be done. It’s obvious from Trudeau’s talking about it that *something* happened.

    boingboing - Thanks for sharing that one - it is one I somehow missed. Looking at the timing of the article, it was in July when I was likely on vacation and unplugged. I wish I had seen that before voting in the election.

    An obvious comparison is Brett Kavanaugh. They had all the evidence in front of them that he had sexually assaulted someone including one of his victims standing up and saying it happened and then ignoring it and still making him a judge. That is a way worse example of someone in a position of power still being able to ignore #metoo.
     
  26. HairyAss

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    boingboing - I still don’t know what pussification is from your post though. It still sounds like people being upset that they’re no longer allowed to be racist in public.

    Your #metoo examples all seem to be an issue with a double standard still existing for privileged white men which I agree with. Am I misreading why you were posting about #metoo while explaining pussification?
     
  27. Boots

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    My take on it is the current 'everyone is a winner, everyone is equal' attitude that gets pushed everywhere, especially with children. It's really setting them up for failure. The world and life in general isn't going to match up with their expectations. Life's not fair, life's not equal, not everyone is going to get dealt the same cards.
     
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  28. HairyAss

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    So, I'm right in my assessment. Most of the, "let's make things more equitable" movement is around pointing out that the balance of power sits with straight white males. So, pussification is anything in society viewed as infringing on that power that straight white males view as their birthright.
     
  29. Boots

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    Yeah I don't care for the term 'pussification' myself. What I'm talking about just makes it sound like a macho guy thing. What I'm talking about affects everyone regardless of sex.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  30. HairyAss

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    So what are you talking about then? I would put the "everyone deserves a medal" in a different bucket than all the other examples that have been brought up here. Everyone deserves a medal is "equality" when it comes to physical/mental ability which I put in a different bucket than the rest of the examples that have been brought up here.
     
  31. Boots

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    I'm talking about the same thing you are. My point is that it's also what boingboing is saying, only the 'pussification of our country' tends to include things like boys not being "manly" enough and stuff like that. To me, that's not the same as the 'everyone is equal' thing.
     
  32. boing

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  33. Boots

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    Even if it was real, I have a child and when I look at that photo I see four children of different backgrounds playing. Any racism in that photo is the racist thoughts that come to the mind of the person viewing it.

    As for sexual assault. If it happens, it should be reported to the police at the time and they should investigate it to the fullest. It's not the job of the public to be judge, jury and executioner on criminal activity.

    Both statements are just my opinion obviously.
     
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  34. Cheddar

    Red is the New Green

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    Seems to me that it's pretty apparent now that this is less about Cherry being fired and more about Trudeau getting another 4 years.

    He won, get over it and do what you can to convince your party to work with his to make the country better. It's not supposed to be a popularity contest that ends once the winner is announced. The new goal of all the incumbents should be to work with what they have to further the country. Unfortunately, if it's like in the past the next two years will be less about Canada and more about trying to force a byelection for another kick at the can. I look forward to hearing about all the atrocious things that the winning party has done and how the Monday morning QBs would have done whatever it was, differently.
     
  35. HairyAss

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    I voted for the Liberals would never say, “get over it” to someone who didn’t. Over half the country didn’t vote for the Liberals. When Trump won here in the States, I heard the same things from the few Republicans I know who actually supported him.

    “Get over it” is a lot different than “let’s find a way to work together”. In some cases, it probably isn’t possible.
     

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