making the move to a heat pump

Discussion in 'Reality Check' started by David Puddy, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. David Puddy

    yeah, that's right

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,536
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    dartmouth
    not a mini split, but a coil and condenser for my existing forced air oil setup.
    Does anyone have a preference for companies and/or licensed contractors who are in that field. i'm sized for a 2 ton condenser from the first quote i got from Lowry HVAC. getting another quote from Atlantic Heating & Cooling on Thursday.
    wifey wants A/C this summer so i gotta get moving on this lol
     
  2. 17

    17
    teenage dirtbag

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    33,543
    Likes Received:
    1,149
    I dealt with ready refrigeration and they were awesome
     
  3. Cracker

    non-n00b

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    46
    Location:
    Petawawa(from the Valley)
    We went through Costco for ours (received a $750 cash back card). They contract out to Sunshine Renewable Energy.

    They were quick, clean, and efficient. We also converted from forced air oil furnace and had a 2.5 tonne Lennox installed.
    Our 2,000 sq ft home has averaged $115 a month in electricity since having it installed. We also burned approx 3 cord of wood this winter.
    We are very pleased with the heat pump and the low monthly electrical bills. The A/C last summer was a dream!
     
  4. David Puddy

    yeah, that's right

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,536
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    dartmouth
    what was the final bill on that? did you have to get any of your duct work upgraded?
    i have a lot of 4" feeds going to different rooms and some of it will have to be upgrade to 5" and 6" i'm told
     
  5. MRA

    MRA
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,442
    Likes Received:
    289
    Location:
    Canada
    Sunshine Renewable Energy did my sisters mini split, they did a great job, quick, and clean install
     
  6. Dewie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Location:
    N.S.
    Are you sure it wasn't Shines?
     
  7. Arod

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    19,207
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Stratford, PE
    We are looking at a home built about 20 years ago that has an open loop Geothermal AC on its own well (house as been converted to city for domestic water). The main heat is oil in floor but at +/-3200sf the bills are a bit on the high side. Is it economical to repace it with a heating/cooling unit? I know that closed is more common now a days.
     
  8. David Puddy

    yeah, that's right

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,536
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    dartmouth
    What type of system did you have installed? Mini splits can be done by 5th graders nowadays
     
  9. Wayne

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    19,321
    Likes Received:
    846
    Location:
    Canada
    I will say this, my power bill for last 3 months was $900-1200/mnth without my working central ducted heat pump. Cold months but $400-500 higher than previous years per month. Can't wait to get a new unit put in in spring.
     
  10. Mitch

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    24,521
    Likes Received:
    717
    Location:
    Bedford
    I just got a quote through Costco and it was north of 12K and he said be prepared for an extra 1000 incase
     
  11. Matt30

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Messages:
    19,497
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Tantallon, NS, Canada
    Not correctly.
     
    Dewie likes this.
  12. David Puddy

    yeah, that's right

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,536
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    dartmouth
    point being, a ducted system is more involved to design and size the heat exchangers than a mini split
     
  13. 17

    17
    teenage dirtbag

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    33,543
    Likes Received:
    1,149

    mine is a mini split yes, but i follow them on FB and all their ducted installs look great

    not to mention the sales process and quoting was spot on, no pressure, no hidden charges or anything. clean install, they made sure i knew what i was doing before they left my house. so regardless of the type of system, the service is what impressed me the most, especially since everyone and their 5th grader is doing hvac these days.
     
  14. Cracker

    non-n00b

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    46
    Location:
    Petawawa(from the Valley)
    Oops! DewieDewie you are correct, it was Shines that we had contracted through Costco.
    We had Sunshine out first and Shines ended up price matching the Sunshine quote in addition to getting the cash back card. (Sunshine was about $500 cheaper).

    David PuddyDavid Puddy
    We ended up paying a little under $11K.
    This price included replacing the forced air oil furnace with a smaller electric furnace that is considered the "back up" heat source in the event that the heat pump doesn't work due to low temperatures (hasn't happened to us yet).
    2.5 tonne Lennox central ducted heat pump with a digital temperature control wall thing.
    Removal of our old oil tank and lines.

    We didn't have to upgrade any duct work or electrical.
    We were lucky that the original owners had installed a 200amp electrical panel when building the house, so no upgrade was needed there.

    You can apply for 1 of 2 different rebates: https://www.efficiencyns.ca/product/centrally-ducted-heat-pumps/

    Green Heat can be used no matter what heat source you are switching from (oil, electric, etc.), but the Home Energy Assessment (HEA) one requires that you are upgrading your current electric heat source (not oil). The HEA rebates have decreased a bit since we installed ours but we got back $1600 back vs the $1000 that we would have gotten with Green Heat. Plus we also installed new windows in our house within the 12 month upgrade period to get additional rebates through the HEA.

    When Sunshine came to quote us, they taught us about the loop hole to make our conversion meet the HEA guidelines even though we were converting from oil and not electric.

    Day 1: We had Shines come and convert our furnace to electric and remove the oil tank.
    Day 2: We had HomeSol come and do a $99 Home Energy Assessment on our new electrically heated house. (takes about an hour)
    Day 3: Shines returned and installed the external unit for the heat pump and connected all of the lines, and finished the job.

    After everything was done (heat pump and windows), HomeSol came back and redid our HEA (has to be within 12 months of the initial assessment). They submitted all of our info for the rebates to EfficiencyNS, and a couple months later we received our rebate cheque in the mail for $2200.
    We will also be getting back 15% of our CMHC fees because we improved the energy efficiency of our home by a certain # of points within two years of purchasing it.

    I just got our NS Power bill today for the last two months, $166.49. We are pretty happy about that. Like I mentioned before, it runs more in the summer for the A/C, but our bill has yet to go about $300 for the two month billing period.

    So by going through Costco (Shines) we got the $750 cash back card, plus we are Executive Members so we received an additional $200 back with our 2% cash back cheque. All said and done we got almost $5k of our initial investment back (that includes the windows rebate).

    I think that pretty much sums up our experience. Let me know if you have any more specific questions that I may be able to answer. It was all a bit tricky to navigate through initially and I didn't have anyone with any first hand experience to help, but I think we fared out okay in the end.

    IMG_0544.jpg

    Screen Shot 2019-04-10 at 10.14.11 PM.png

    Screen Shot 2019-04-10 at 10.16.43 PM.png
     
    v-mac, Dewie and 17 like this.
  15. Dewie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Location:
    N.S.
    Open loop is more efficient (if the water is there) as the temperatures from the ground are constant; this is assuming you're not running a 3HP pump to do the pumping or something.

    Yes you can run a heating/cooling heat pump this way (I do).
     
  16. Wayne

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    19,321
    Likes Received:
    846
    Location:
    Canada
    I would give both nuts for a power bill like that, can't wait for a few years to sell this place and get something small on the water.
     
  17. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    75,295
    Likes Received:
    4,859
    Location:
    Halifax
    merged the two heat pump threads lol
     
  18. Arod

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    19,207
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Stratford, PE
    considering that the Boiler is getting old and the masonry chimney needs replaced It might not be a bad idea to convert. Water shouldn't be an issue. Especially considering that all other houses around have been taken off of their wells as well.
     
  19. Dewie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Location:
    N.S.
    I'm having water issues now... The well report shows it was making 30gpm when drilled but I'm drawing the water down and having issues when it's really cold... I have custom controls to manage the water (and am working on a 2nd iteration of those controls right now) but if I had unlimited water, or even the rate they had when drilled, I'd be laughing
     
  20. RoryTate

    Buffer the streaming media unto me.

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,475
    Likes Received:
    733
    Location:
    Rigaud, QC
    I've seen the pipes running from a well get constricted like clogged arteries. Check the pipes where it comes into the house to see if that's the case.

    We ended up using a utility pump, a length of hose, and a 205 gal barrel to create a loop, tying into the well intake one one end and the house on the other. Lots of IronOut was used to flush the pipe clear.
     
  21. Dewie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Location:
    N.S.
    Unfortunately this is not the case for me :( the water pressure drops off to nothing. You let it sit for a bit and the water level recovers and you're good to go again for a bit. I've been dealing with this for a couple of years now, have a new pump down the well and the water line I buried and put there myself about 10 years ago now.

    In an effort to monitor water levels I built myself a sensor for my dug well that I use for domestic water, I actually switched the heatpump to run off it a couple of days ago:

    upload_2019-4-12_8-0-50.png

    This represents the percentage of the sensor range that is covered in water; this particular sensor has a 5M range, though my well is about 7M. In theory I can have 2M of water more than when it's reading 100%. I may pump the well out tonight (into the deep well) to try to determine at what point the well "runs dry" and I can set up alerts/warnings accordingly. There is still a fair bit of frost in the ground so the water isn't getting in to the water table so much just yet (you can see we had rain on the 1st and again on the 3rd).

    Anyways I may gear up another sensor for the other well, though it's 200ft deep and to be accurate I should pull the pump and put the water depth sensor around the same height as the pump.

    *note* initially I had much higher resolution data recording which I've scaled back, that's why the scale at the bottom is daily, then skips to every 2nd day
     
  22. David Puddy

    yeah, that's right

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,536
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    dartmouth

    you're really on top of your game !

    so i've hit a road block in having the centrally ducted heat pump add on is that all my duct feeds to the bedrooms on the second floor are 4" (too small) and need at least 5" or 6".
     
  23. Dewie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Location:
    N.S.
    Yeah this is a common problem with a lot of existing ducted systems, especially forced air oil furnaces... the difference is with energy transfer for the volume of air, the furnace can bring the smaller volume of air up to a much higher temperature so it doesn't have to move as much air to have the same heating effect....

    I assume it'd be a huge job to replace the ductwork too...
     
  24. Arod

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    19,207
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Stratford, PE
    We had the system evaluated and it looks promising. The unit itself is a carrier weather master GT, which at only 36k btu was only sized for cooling the upstairs through the high mount ducts. What was recommended is to put in a combo system that will use the existing in floor for heat and ducts for cooling. Right now pei has a $4k rebate for geothermal systems which will be awesome and it will be a very simple install.
     
    RoryTate likes this.
  25. SilverMan

    The Spud

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Porter's Lake
    I'm going down the same route myself, adding on to my existing forced air furnace. My reasoning was that I'm only spending about $1500 on oil a year for heat and hot water for a 1800 sq ft home and I already have the ducts in place, I'd rather have whole home AC instead of a couple of mini-splits.

    I had 3 different companies give me a quote:
    1. Sunshine Renewable quoted me $11,379 for a 3 ton York Affinity, 16 SEER, 9.1 HSPF, including ductwork, electrical and taxes
    2. Halifax Heating quoted me $11,419 for a 2 ton Lennox Signature SL18, 18.5 SEER, 10.2 HSPF, including ductwork, electrical, a new furnace blower motor and taxes
    3. TimberMart quoted me $8,896 for a 2 ton Lennon Merit 14HPX, 16 SEER, 8.2 HSPF, including ductwork electrical and taxes

    I really just need it for AC, I don't think I'd really see any savings in heating costs.

    However I was at the home show this spring and a rep from Irving mentioned that I might want to get a new furnace at the same time. He said that my forced air furnace at 15 years old, was likely near the end of it's life.

    Now I'm not sure what route I should take.
     
  26. Wayne

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    19,321
    Likes Received:
    846
    Location:
    Canada
    I need to ask around then...I got a quote here in Fredericton...

    hp-quote.jpg
     
  27. RoryTate

    Buffer the streaming media unto me.

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,475
    Likes Received:
    733
    Location:
    Rigaud, QC
    Central AC is awesome, but the cost between an AC & a heat pump really isn't much. I'd suggest pricing a heat pump & new furnace and find out what government programs would apply. A good contractor can give you all that info.
     
  28. RoryTate

    Buffer the streaming media unto me.

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,475
    Likes Received:
    733
    Location:
    Rigaud, QC
    That's steep, especially for a two stage. I bought a variable speed system last year with 23 SEER/10 HSPF with a variable speed air handler for thousands less.
     
    Wayne likes this.
  29. Dewie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Location:
    N.S.
    This; in this part of the world I don't think I'd install just an AC unit. I'd also have someone look at your furnace and give your a better opinion of what they think about it. I know of numerous furnaces 30 years old that are still going fine...
     
  30. v-mac

    Fire / Hazmat / GSAR

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,576
    Likes Received:
    295
    Location:
    Antigonish, NS
    This. An oil furnace that's been serviced every year or 2 will generally last quite a long time.
     
  31. SilverMan

    The Spud

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Porter's Lake
    I should clarify, I'm looking to add a heat pump to existing system, not just central AC. I have no issues with my current furnace, it works perfectly. I've just never heard of a forced air furnace having a life of 15 years. My dad's is 52 years old and still works great.
     
  32. Wayne

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    19,321
    Likes Received:
    846
    Location:
    Canada
    v-mac likes this.
  33. RoryTate

    Buffer the streaming media unto me.

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,475
    Likes Received:
    733
    Location:
    Rigaud, QC
    Variable speed is nice, that looks like a nice solution.
     
  34. Wayne

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    19,321
    Likes Received:
    846
    Location:
    Canada
    Ended up going variable speed, but a different brand. Wasn't happy with the other companies process/communications so I paid more to feel comfortable.

    Was mostly installed today with the matching communicating thermostat (CTK04) and electric air filtration. Ducts are all getting cleaned before it's fired up tomorrow.

    https://www.amana-hac.com/products/heat-pumps/avzc18
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
    RoryTate and Boots like this.
  35. David Puddy

    yeah, that's right

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,536
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    dartmouth
    Turns out that my partners uncle has a successful HVAC company in Moncton, so he's just charging us for parts. getting a 2.5 tonne York put in next weekend!
     
    Cracker, BlackFire and RoryTate like this.

Share This Page