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Have a 10/22?

Discussion in 'Reality Check' started by tribeachpunk, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. tribeachpunk

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    What do you think about having a dangerous prohibited device in your house? Maybe don't answer that.

    A group representing gun owners plans to sue the federal government (Source)
    By Michael Joel-Hansen July 31, 2016 - 4:51pm Updated: August 2, 2016 - 8:25am

    The Canadian Shooting Sports Association (CSSA) is taking the government of Canada to court.

    The planned class action lawsuit comes on the heels of a decision by the RCMP to classify magazines designed for certain weapons which contain 10 rounds as prohibited.

    Tony Bernardo is the executive director of the CSSA and said the decision by the RCMP affects a lot of people.

    "The RCMP took approximately one and a quarter million magazines owned by hundreds of thousands of Canadians and instantly made them into a prohibited weapon overnight."

    Bernardo said the decision by the RCMP leaves many people in what he called a legal limbo.

    "The owners can't use them, the owners can't transport them ... even if they want to take them to a police station they're not allowed to transport them because they are prohibited weapons."

    Bernardo said the RCMP is contending that these magazines are hand gun magazines after Ruger made a pistol which can use the magazines.

    "The RCMP is saying that the magazines were designed for the hand gun and it's not true," he explained. "The hand gun was designed for the magazines, these magazines were in existence 40 years before there was a hand gun."

    Bernardo did have advice for people who own these prohibited magazines.

    "Don't use them, don't move them, don't sell them, don't give them away, don't do anything."

    Bernardo said owners of these magazines should consider joining the class action lawsuit and can do this by contacting the shooting sports association.​

    The law, as it was widely understood, is that if the magazine was designed for a handgun, it was a no-go in a rifle. This magazine was patented and sold in Canada since the 70s, sold through the 80s and 90s, still sold all through 00s when Ruger shipped less than 400 'Chargers' to Canada, and sold up until pretty much everyone pulled them a few weeks ago. This was all seemingly okay because the magazine was designed to fit the rifle in the late 70s. It better have been okay, there are probably a couple hundred thousand on the market. Now, suddenly, some bureaucrat has outlawed them overnight. If you have one, "you may be in possession of a prohibited device."
     
    ~*SuzieQ*~ likes this.
  2. maniac

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    How did this even become a problem? I don't think the rcmp should be in charge of classifying firearms anymore.
     
  3. tribeachpunk

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    I agree. The previous Minister of Public Safety was all over the RCMP two days after they overstepped by prohibiting a bunch of popular non-restricted rifles. The last government gave amnesty to all of the people the RCMP made criminals of overnight back then, and eventually restored the non-restricted status of the rifles.

    I don't exactly have high hopes this government's Minister of Public Safety, Ralph Goodale, will take the RCMP to task on this. He's made no comment yet.

    The RCMP had previously decided that a similar magazine for the same rifle, the BX-25, was prohibited because it was marketed as compatible with the Charger Pistol. It was designed for both the pistol AND 10/22 rifle. At the same time, the RCMP allowed the now prohibited Butler Creek mags because they were only advertised for the 10/22 rifle, and designed before anyone ever thought of the Charger. When the RCMP was dealing with the BX25 magazine years ago, surely they would have known that the Butler Creek mag would fit in Charger. What made them suddenly change their mind is a mystery.
     
  4. visual_kool

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    I donated to the court case. If they get away with this shit there will be more to come.
     
  5. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

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    I don't understand the issue. What's so special about these magazines? 10 rounds is the limit for pistols is it not?
     
  6. tribeachpunk

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    It is, typically. If a magazine is designed for a pistol, it must be pinned to ten. Rimfire doesn't have a capacity limit... typically. It's all in the wording. The mags were always "okay" because they were designed and marketed for the 10/22 only. Mags designed and marketed for the Charger, like the prohibited BX25 mag, would need to be limited to ten rounds because they're FOR the pistol.

    The Butler Creek 25-round magazine they don't like suddenly wasn't designed for the Charger. The Charger wasn't even a thing when the magazine was designed. A big part of how the law is worded hinges on "designed" being present.

    I'm getting lazy so I'm going to copy/paste some more...

    • 10/22 magazines produced before Charger Pistol came to market - This is the biggest issues with the decision. The Charger Pistol was only released in 2007 while the 10/22 has been around since the 1960s. Since >10 round Magazines were being produced for the 10/22 rifle before 2007, it doesn't support the RCMP claim that they were "designed or manufactured" for the Charger.

    • Butler Creek mags vs BX-25 mags - The RCMP had previously decided that BX-25 magazines were prohibited because they were marketed as compatible with the Charger Pistol but allowed Butler Creek and other magazines because they were only advertised for the 10/22 rifle. Surely at this time they would have known that a Butler Creek magazine would fit in Charger Pistol. What has changed since then that made them change their minds?

    • The RCMP notified their various enforcement arms that the status of the magazines had changed before releasing any guidance to the general public. Evidence here. This is a staggeringly, mind-bogglingly irresponsible thing for them to do. At the very least it shows a blatant disregard for responsible gun owners, and should result in their power to enforce their interpretation being either scaled back or forced to go through some kind of public regulatory process

    • Did the RCMP change their opinion about the status of these mags? Or did they, as they claim, simply start enforcing the law as it's written? Check the memo linked to above and note the term 'are now prohibited'.

    • If, as they claim, these magazines were always prohibited devices, why did the RCMP not enforce the law? We have copies of briefings they sent to officers that clearly describe the unpinned magazines as a 'threat' due to the existence of the Charger pistol. (NOTE: I'm 100% certain I've seen that memo, but am unable to find a picture of it online-- if anyone can find a link to it, please share) If these magazines represent a threat, then why has the RCMP allowed them to be sold freely on store shelves and in online storefronts in the 9 years since the introduction of the Charger pistol?

    Some of those bullets (:ohnoes:) require explanation we're not getting, and probably won't get til someone is charged. On the last point "why did the RCMP not enforce the law?" you have to wonder why the Canadian Border Services Agency allowed them to be imported at all, unless they were imported as prohibs, and they weren't.
     
  7. tribeachpunk

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    Imagine they decided to apply this logic to Just Right Carbines...

    [​IMG]

    It takes a 10-round 9mm Glock mag, or .40 S&W mag, or 1911 .45 mags...

    What if the RCMP decided tonight that because the (non-restricted and restricted) JRCs exist and accept 10-round pistol mags, that all Glock, etc. and 1911 mags must now be pinned to 5-rounds like a rifle would typically be...?
     
  8. visual_kool

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    There is also a line about the firearm that the mags are used in being easily obtained. The Ruger Charger pistol is NOT easily obtained in Canada.
     

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