Election

Discussion in 'Reality Check' started by HairyAss, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. tribeachpunk

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    35,106
    Likes Received:
    312
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    It was dumb when Ignatieff and Dion were dragged for being duel citizens, and it was equally dumb when the same was done to Scheer..
     
  2. C. Mike Hunt

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    Messages:
    8,139
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    Location:
    Across from Halifax
    The thing is, years ago, he shit all over Michaelle Jean because she had dual citizenship.
     
  3. tribeachpunk

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    35,106
    Likes Received:
    312
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    It's just a club they all use on their opponents.. Not anything that should be swaying your vote imo, just petty politics.
     
  4. boing

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    9,501
    Likes Received:
    194
    Location:
    North Central BC
    Not that it matters now, he is only the interim leader until next month.
     
  5. Wayne

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    19,513
    Likes Received:
    964
    Location:
    Canada
    This
     
  6. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    75,849
    Likes Received:
    5,038
    Location:
    Halifax
    I'd be shocked if he even started the process in the first place.
     
  7. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    75,849
    Likes Received:
    5,038
    Location:
    Halifax
  8. tribeachpunk

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    35,106
    Likes Received:
    312
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    Didn't Scheer get approval for his expenses?
    His expenses, weren't they paid by the Conservative Party Fund, or were those our tax dollars?

    I'm not a Scheer guy but I have a hard time looking at a $900m government scandal with the same corruption lens as the CPC using CPC dollars to send Scheer's kids to school.
     
    Smokey likes this.
  9. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    75,849
    Likes Received:
    5,038
    Location:
    Halifax
    "If they allow him to continue, if they don't demand that he resign, then they are telling Canadians that they are comfortable with his corruption," Scheer told reporters during a press conference on Parliament Hill.

    Couldn't the exact same thing be said about the conservatives and Scheer himself? Even worse because Scheer has been proven corrupt where Trudeau is (at this point) only accused of it
     
  10. tribeachpunk

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    35,106
    Likes Received:
    312
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    I guess I just don't see seeking approval for expenses from the party, and getting that approval, as corruption. Bad optics, sure, but corruption? AFAIK the CPC admitted bad optics and canned the guy approving expense claims. Scheer claimed expenses to the CPC and they were approved. I'm not sure how this is proof or corruption. Isn't that grasping? I can't recall the outcome of the the federal Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's investigation into Scheer's corruption. Was the outcome similar to that office's several past investigations into the Prime Minister? I don't think so.

    I don't like Scheer, had to hold my nose to vote for CPC, but these two scandals, to me at least, are apples and oranges. One is the sitting PM offering a un-tendered $900m sole source contract to a 'family and friends' organization.. The other scandal is a guy trying to get his employer to cover his expenses.

    Scheer is over anyway. This is beating a dead horse. As soon as the CPC picks a new leader, you won't find Scheer on the mic telling us where the CPC is standing any longer.
     
    Smokey, Nick84 and Grifter like this.
  11. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    75,849
    Likes Received:
    5,038
    Location:
    Halifax
    Not going to go down this road any further but yes, using political donations to pay for your kids private school is blatant corruption.
     
  12. tribeachpunk

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    35,106
    Likes Received:
    312
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    Claimed and approved though. Surely shouldn't have been approved but Scheer didn't sneak in at night and take the money. There was a process and he followed it.

    Edit: I think if I were I CPC donor the Scheer thing would be troubling, but I'm not. As a taxpayer, I'm not so troubled if the CPC wants to spend money unwisely at their own detriment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
    Smokey and Grifter like this.
  13. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary
    The hilarity of someone shitting on someone who has one foot out the door, resigned as leader, even though the "scandal" they were involved in was approved and put through all the correct channels... When the person running our country has been caught red handed in multiple scandals, put our country in the largest deficit in its history, wasted billions of dollars, tried to funnel almost a billion dollars to a "'charity" (and tried to play it off as "our government couldn't handle dispensing the money properly" (ironic!))for student grants rather than put that money to where it could be better used IE: veterans or homeless.

    Like seriously man, frig off. Scheer is doing the right thing and laying on his sword. Great job kicking someone while they are down.

    Your chosen one leader? He put this country in the worst spot it's been in in its history! At this point your opinion on politics is worth about as much as a penny.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
    boing and Smokey like this.
  14. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    75,849
    Likes Received:
    5,038
    Location:
    Halifax
    [​IMG]
     
    Wayne likes this.
  15. tribeachpunk

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    35,106
    Likes Received:
    312
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
  16. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary
    Yup...

    tenor.gif
     
    boing likes this.
  17. HairyAss

    HairyAss
    [OP]
    Cheese on Toast

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    16,373
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Location:
    Seattle
    Careful, GrifterGrifter - you're starting to make Canadian politics sound like US politics when you talk like that.
     
    Grifter likes this.
  18. 17

    17
    teenage dirtbag

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    33,737
    Likes Received:
    1,257
    I think JT says and does some seriously stupid shit but “post covid” I don’t think we can hold a deficit against him. It’s unprecedented and had to be done to lessen the immediate impact on nearly every aspect of our economy.


    That being said, if the investigation sheds light on some concrete corruption with the WE scandal, he needs to step down.

    I don’t blindly support him like some subjective hyper partisan lunatic. If he did wrong he needs to go. End of story. I’d expect the same if another party were in power.
     
    Wayne and Grifter like this.
  19. Boots

    www.reality-check.ca

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    75,849
    Likes Received:
    5,038
    Location:
    Halifax
    Yeah if Trudeau is found out to be up to something bad I'll be the first to say GTFO. I certainly won't be on here defending him :o
     
  20. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary
    With a deficit, I get it. It's the SCALE of the deficit I don't agree with. I've said before, other countries have come out of this in far better shape than Canada. We are the only country in the G7 to have our credit rating drop and anyone on here is fucking naive as hell if they think this is comparable to world war 2 or the great depression. Our countries economy is in worse shape than those events. WithSWith aya dropped credit rating, you know our debt needs to be paid back at a higher interest. And he just keeps doling out money. Giving money to charities in a time like this? And almost a billion dollars? Even if their were no family ties and conflicts of interest, that still shows ZERO accountability and poor judgement.
    So yes, I can hold that against him.
     
  21. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary
    Yeah yeah....




    Seriously though, thanks for keeping me in check. :lol:
     
  22. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary
    He's been found guilty before. Also, he is the first sitting Prime Minister to break multiple conflict of interest rules. SNC Lavalin (shut down the criminal investigation but ethics commisioner found him guilty)
    Aga Khan Island (4 findings) and now this WE thing.

    But I guess people just keep not caring. Rules can be bent or broken depending on who you are and standards that apply to you may not apply to someone else. It's become a joke.

    I am no Scheer fan, but I don't feel it's necessary to kick someone when they are down. I don't want Scheer as my leader and I don't know if I would vote for McKay or O'Toole for the new PC leader. But from what I've observed of them, they seem better than Scheer. Plus when it comes to prime minister, the bar is pretty fucking low.
     
  23. tribeachpunk

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    35,106
    Likes Received:
    312
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    Like, the lowest...

    I don't know who the CPC picks to lead them now (I think voting is ongoing now..) but I hope they it's someone more palatable than Scheer was.
     
    Grifter likes this.
  24. 17

    17
    teenage dirtbag

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    33,737
    Likes Received:
    1,257

    My vote is up for grabs, but Otoole, and even more so, Mackay have work to do

    I think Rona Ambrose should have tossed her hat in the ring imo
     
    boing, Smokey and tribeachpunk like this.
  25. HairyAss

    HairyAss
    [OP]
    Cheese on Toast

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    16,373
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Location:
    Seattle
    Which G7 country should Trudeau have modeled his response to? France, who fucked it up from the beginning and barely contained the virus and were a model of what not to do? Perhaps the US? It’s looking like Trump’s inaction is going great for the people but, hey, at least he’s propping up the economy for the rich and has bolstered the stock market with more money than the US spent in all of WWII.

    Do some research, Grifter - what we are going through *is* as bad as things like WWI, The Great Depression, etc. Living in a historic moment isn’t look the same as reading a condensed version of history but the impacts of this pandemic will last for a long long time. The *only* reason you can say otherwise is because of the amazing fucking job Canada did curbing the spread and spending the money needed to keep folks from falling into economic hell.
     
    Wayne likes this.
  26. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary
    In my opinion comparing this to a world war is asinine. If that's the approach you're going to take, I can't respect that. Is this a big deal? Yes. Does it take lots of money to fight it? Yes. But saying it's like a world war is rediculous.

    France may have done terrible at the start but they've vastly improved and are doing well. Germany is doing well. Now I'm no expert. I can only base my arguments on what I know, and I'm no authority. What I do know is our country is doling out money that it should not be. Our countries economy is in terrible shape and we dropped our countries credit rating which means we have to pay all this money back at higher interest and therefore it will take longer to do it. Our kids will never experience a life where our country is flourishing. (Barring a miracle) That pisses me off. This CERB thing is bull shit. I know there are people that it's helping out. But the fact it's not taxed and anyone thinks that people that are getting it are all going to set aside the money for tax season? Give me a break. Doling out money to charities when you're broke? Fuck off!

    Canada is not okay. It will not be okay for awhile. Sitting back and saying it is, denying it all and acting like it's all sunshine and lollipops is just as stupid as giving $900m to charity, when you're living on your overdraft and you're countries credit rating is plummeting. The dope never had to manage money and it it shows. He doesn't give a fuck, he's rich. When he leaves office, he will be fine! Higher taxes? Meh. Throw some of daddies money at the problem! Call up WE, mommy needs a new Benz! Jarvis, get my Shaft costume! I need to get on stage!

    When he's done, the prime minister that comes in, whether they are liberal or PC is gonna have to take a lot of Tylenol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    boing likes this.
  27. Wayne

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    19,513
    Likes Received:
    964
    Location:
    Canada
    So let me talk about CERB for a second.

    - My wife was laid off due to work shortages (covid-19 responsible) 30 days after we found out she was pregnant
    - She applied for EI knowing, but they put her on CERB
    - Over 90 days being off work she gets laid off permanently (due to COVID-19)

    If she had of been on EI (and not CERB), she would have had to stay on EI until she was supposed to hit maternity leave. Here's the kicker, at that point she would have had not enough weeks left and we would have had to go the entire time she was on maternity leave with no income.

    CERB did exactly what it was supposed to do. Since CERB doesn't eat into her EI weeks, she now will have full extended maternity leave come November as we would have had all along.

    So you can piss and moan about CERB all you want, but it was a great fucking idea and protected people.
     
    17 and Grifter like this.
  28. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary
    I did say there are some people that it's helping out. But the vast majority of people I feel are abusing it. My wife is on it. But you can damn well bet we save some of it for tax season!
     
  29. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary
    boing likes this.
  30. HairyAss

    HairyAss
    [OP]
    Cheese on Toast

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    16,373
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Location:
    Seattle
    So your wife is on CERB and sees the benefit. Wayne’s wife is on CERB and is seeing the benefit. My brother in law runs a small business in Truro and CERB saved his staff - the only issue he saw was a slight reluctance for folks to come back to work when they opened back up but that lasted about a week.

    But “you’ve got a feeling people are abusing it” so it means it was a horrible idea.

    Give me a break. If the Conservatives were in power and did the same thing, you’d be shouting to the rafters about what a great program it is and how it shows what great leaders the Conservatives are.

    All social economic programs have flaws and will be abused by some. It doesn’t make them the right decision. Almost every country is going to come out of this scarred in some way - if all Canada has to face is a credit rating hit, that’s probably better than most.

    Let’s be clear - this is a separate discussion from whether Trudeau is about to get mired in another scandal. His track record on COVID is not the same as talking about the WE thing. It feels to me like you have a hate just simmering below the surface for anything the Liberal party does and it boils over at the slightest prodding - which is what I see in American politics.

    Ignore the party, look at track records with your own agenda, not a political party’s agenda - ie; think for yourself.
     
  31. boing

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    9,501
    Likes Received:
    194
    Location:
    North Central BC
    It surprises me but I agree with this, Rona would have made a great leader and I was disappointed when she said she was not going to come back.
    Mackay lost my vote he just doesn't seem to WANT it and thinks it should be handed to him and I know the backroom deals have been made years ago to give it to him. I am voting Otoole and Lewis gets my second vote, she would have my vote but she has no experience but neither does our current PM. Her positive is she has the obvious visuals and political to beat Trudeau

    I came here expecting this #WE thing to be a turning point and an eye opener here but this really is a left wing den now if people are really following this #WEscandal and are still supporting Trudeau who has given Billions to other countries and shitting on Scheer (who I do not like) for getting PARTY money to spend on his kids school and whatever he made his deals for. It's party money not taxpayers money.

    And for HairyAssHairyAss #TRUMP2020 :rockon:
     
  32. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary

    When it comes to people abusing it? It's more than a feeling. Don't presume to tell me what I see and observe every day. My neighbors wife works part time at a mall. She makes more on CERB than she does at work. Guess what's she's doing? Blowing through it like crazy. They've bought a new car, refurnished their house, and bought tons of toys for the kids. Am I glad they can suddenly enjoy life a little more? Sure. Do I wish they were going about achieving this in a different way other than tax dollars? You bet! I see this all the time. I never denied that some people need it. But it should at least be taxed and the process of getting it more stringent.

    This is absolutely fucking bull shit. As soon as someone has a differing view than you and Steve we get shit on and belittled and made to feel like we are idiots. I've never said anything of the nature you dropped when you said I cant think for Myself. Sure I make digs and insult the Liberal party. By all means do the same to me. That I get and respect. But do not presume to tell me I don't know how to think for myself.

    "I've got a feeling people are abusing it."

    I've got a feeling some people on RC can be an arrogant asshole sometimes and think they are better than the majority of people on RC. Sometimes.

    I'm not telling you how to think. Don't tell me how to think. I'm fed up and had enough of hypocrisy and double standards. You don't like it? Move along. I do think for myself. Agree to disagree amigo!
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    boing likes this.
  33. HairyAss

    HairyAss
    [OP]
    Cheese on Toast

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    16,373
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Location:
    Seattle
    Make more posts that aren't obvious talking points carved from Conservative media articles and I'll agree that you think for yourself.

    I'm not shitting on you or trying to belittle you. I'm trying to debate at a worldwide scale whether Canada under Trudeau's leadership has done a decent job or not with regards to the Pandemic. As someone sitting in the United States right now and who has watched and followed the spread of this thing from day one, I like where Canada has landed. It's from a position of privilege that you can criticize the response. The opposite is that the pandemic was let out of control like is currently happening in the US. Be happy that you're not living here.

    Back to comparing this to WWII. I'm not saying the scale of death is on par with WWII. From an economic perspective, however, the US has already spent more on this pandemic propping up things like the stock market than was spent on its entire foray into WWII. So, from that perspective... yes, this is on par. The "second wave" of the pandemic, assuming it is coming, will tell us if the death toll is on par - I doubt it will hit WWII levels but it has already surpassed Vietnam: https://time.com/5815367/coronavirus-deaths-comparison/

    All I'm really trying to say. There is a potential WE scandal and Trudeau - on my radar of things I need to get up to speed on right now, I haven't spent a lot of time reading about it. Given what is going on in the US, my own Visa situation, the Pandemic, continued civil unrests and protests, I just haven't prioritized reading about it. As far as scandals go, reading all the early rumors isn't all that telling - I'll pay more attention once facts come to light.

    However, it seems like you're using this potential scandal to start just dumping on Trudeau in general, using his response to the Pandemic as your talking point. On that point, I will respectfully disagree. Unprecedented times, but an approach that brought results and protected the country. All countries are being hit economically by this pandemic - it is more a matter of the trade off between economic impact and human sacrifice. Trudeau and the Liberals fell to the side of some economic impact to save lives. Good on him - you should try living in a country where the government isn't making that choice before blowing those decisions all to hell. Actually, if you want to look at the US, Trump is making sure his rich friends stay rich but the response for the "working man" which CERB essentially helps has been laughable.
     
  34. Grifter

    Bluh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    509
    Location:
    Calgary
    Uh huh.
     
  35. 17

    17
    teenage dirtbag

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    33,737
    Likes Received:
    1,257
    I’m not a die hard liberal by any stretch of the imagination, I pretty much lean conservative on most issues honestly. I voted for Trudeau in 15 to be done with Harper who didn’t even campaign here and that annoyed me.
    I voted Trudeau in 19, begrudgingly, because Scheer is a smarmy little weasley fuck.

    I also think your confusing a vote for support. I support how Trudeau has navigated covid 19. I don’t support his WE dealing, Aga Khan shadiness, apology tours and his ridiculousness in India. I think he leans way too much on being “befuddled” about what he is allowed and not allowed to do and I think he knows EXACTLY what he’s doing with these ethics violations. If he doesn’t, it’s time to replace the top liberal leadership in his circle with more competent people that he can rely on for guidance.
     
    boing, HairyAss and Grifter like this.

Share This Page