Discussion in 'Reality Check' started by HairyAss, Sep 24, 2019.
Another quote where I said nothing about religion being idiotic.
Nowhere did it indicate they would not be helped with assisted death! It said they would refer them to another doctor if the doctor they were consulting with didn't believe it to be an appropriate action. For fuck sakes Steve, ever hear of a second opinion? That's what this is! Doctors take an oath to fucking help people. If they believe they can still help that person why should they be forced to end their life? So they say "not me" and pass them on to the next doctor who very well may just pull the plug.
Like I said, I'm not opposed to doctor assisted death. I can just see a very valid point that that doctor may believe that doctor assisted death is where they draw the line. It's a choice they are allowed to make. Killing, which is what this fucking is, is not for everyone. Whether it's in a sense helping them or not, killing is fucking killing. Who are we to say a doctor must end a life? If they are okay with it, then all the power to them. If I was so sick that I didn't believe I could be helped anymore and just wanted to die, then I hope if all options were exhausted, someone would ease my suffering.
But at the end of the day, your assumption is making you the only person that brought religion into this. That wasn't in the article.
Then you just made it nasty.
Let me propose this to you. Should a doctor be allowed refuse treatment (refer to another doctor) because a patient is homosexual?
Edit: refuse ANY treatment just to be clear
Comparing homosexuality to doctor assisted death is not getting you anywhere.
Umm, I think you missed the point of the question. I wasn't comparing the two. I'm asking if you agree with a doctor refusing to treat a patient based on their sexual orientation?
So you can't answer that one? I'm just wondering where you draw the line on what personal beliefs a doctor can invoke when refusing to do their job.
Refusing to do their job? You're saying it's their job to end someone's life?
Doctors and nurses are the only ones legally allowed to provide "Medical assistance in dying" as it's called. So yes, it's part of their job.
It wasn't part of their job when they signed up for the job. It's a new ask/tell by the Canadian Government and, IMO, it would have been better to make that a gradual change rather than just telling doctors and nurses that it is part of their jobs now. As I've said, I can see other reasons past religion as to why someone wouldn't want to do this. A doctor/nurse shouldn't be punished for it.
As to your question about homosexuality or other reasons not to provide medical assistance... you should actually read the oaths doctors sign when they become doctors so you can understand just how different these things are that you're trying to lump together. It's pretty obvious from chatting with you on this that your ignorance knows no bounds on this subject.
Acting more educated on the subject and trying to insult me by calling me ignorant doesn't really accomplish much. Better job dodging the question than Grifter though.
I did answer your question, Boots .
Just like you caught me saying people who believe in religion are idiots?
It was a real stretch of the imagination when you make statements like this: " A doctors personal decision to practice a religion shouldn't affect their ability to do their job. That's the equivalent of me LARPing on the weekend and refusing to finish my work on Monday because it might upset the king of my make believe kingdom ".
Your sarcasm and comments about religion make it pretty obvious where you stand.
How about a doctor that doesn't operate on leafs fans because he's a hardcore habs fan? Sounds as ridiculous as my LARPing comparison but it's no crazier than a doctor who won't operate on patients because he's involved in a religion. As a society we've somehow established religion as some sort of untouchable subject because it might offend someone to acknowledge what it really is. A doctor wants to refuse to treat a patient because it may violate the law or be unethical in some explainable way, fine by me, but if you aren't going to refuse to do you job, you should have a pretty damn good reason. The religion you choose to practice isn't good enough imho.
I can't imagine how difficult it would be to go through the process of getting things lined up to end your own life only to have your doctor refuse because he/she feels it's wrong.
It's only going to get more interesting too. The liberals are planning on expanding the law to allow more people to qualify.
Boots - As I said, you're the one who keeps dragging religion into this. There is some merit to that but all I'm saying:
- It's not only a religious issue - it's a morality issue that could be based in anything. I have said that if I were a doctor, I would have a hard time with it, and I'm not religious at all.
- This is a new ask on doctors - is it fair to change what a doctor is being asked to do in their profession? You're acting as if doctors have always been asked to perform assisted suicides but now religion is getting in the way. That's a completely different spin.
All I'm saying is that this specific ask on doctors could be viewed as unethical by some regardless of religion. Based on the statements you've made, I assume you think that, "because science", it's a foregone conclusion that a doctor should have to perform assisted end of life (whatever you want to call it). I'm saying - we're human, maybe you need to hold back on that and look at it with some compassion for the doctor. We're not all robots.
By the pure definition of "Conservative" it only makes sense that the party member would be slower to adopt new ideologies. Furthermore as someone trying to lead that party, he has to adopt their same thoughts. If he wants to run with liberal policies he needs to run in the liberal candidacy.
And to suggest that assisted suicide and abortion are purely religious beliefs is ridiculous. Some people's ethical guidelines put them on one side or the other of this with absolutely no consideration for religion.
Boots answer me this. You go to the doctor with an ailment. He suggested you drink lots of fluids and use a humidifier when you sleep. Your friend however had a similar condition and used this drug that seemed to help him. You've seen ads for it on TV, and even with the side effects you think it's the best for you but his research and experience says that you don't need it. Should he be forced to prescribe you the drug?
I'm not dodging your question.
I'm refusing to engage in this rediculous argument any further. Your perspective on this matter in my opinion is jaded, arrogant and ignorant.
That being said, I wouldn't expect you to respect my opinions or views anymore becuase; A, I'm conservative. B, I'm religious. Therefore, I'm a fool and below you.
I would think a good doctor would have a discussion with you and you'd both agree on a course of treatment. If he said his research says you don't need it that's one thing... if he says he won't prescribe it to you because he doesn't feel like the drug manufacturer treats it's employees fairly, then yeah he's in the wrong. You get my point right? The doctors personal opinions shouldn't be involved in the decision making processes imo.
I don't agree with your opinion so I'm arrogant and ignorant...yeaaaaahhh ok
I said respect.
Medicine is not a black and white issue. They are compelled to offer the services that the feel is right for their patient. If you as a patient don't like the proposed treatment you get a second opinion. That goes for everything from how to deal with a sprained ankle to assisted suicide. If they don't believe that that is the correct path to take they aren't obligated to follow it. Just like holistic medicine, they just simply refer you to another doctor.
Pretty sure discussing the idea to end your life with your doctor is one of the first steps. It's not like you make the decision, do your will, make funeral arrangements and the call your doctor for an appointment that afternoon.
It's hilarious watching the media in the US. Now that Bernie is getting traction every news network is trying to smear him. Owners of those companies are terrified of him.
Stock market needs a crash cart...Trump isn't helping investors feel confident.
How in the fuck can he be blaming democrats for the falling stock prices? It's 100% covid-19 related...what an ass hat.
It's actually not 100% covid. The market has been long overdue for a correction. Covid might just have been the catalyst to kick it off.
Yeah I read about the correction coming too, but none of it is election/democrat related like Trump says.
Scheer still a US citizen lol
What a fucking scumbag.
I mean, if you read the article, he halted the process upon realising he wasn't going to become Prime Minister. I think the guy is a tool but what's the big deal?