Could it be the Motherboard?

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by MrAss, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. MrAss

    MrAss
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    Power supply fan failed on a PC here.

    It turned around and cooked the other fans (CPU, CASE).
    The OS won't load, so I put another harddrive in, and it doens't laod either.

    So it's not the harddrives.

    The HD are connected via promise card, won't work.
    I directly plug the HD to the IDE1 on the motherboard, and still doesn't
    see it.

    Any idea's what this could be ?

    Thanks
     
  2. Boots

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    You did replace the power supply right ?
     
  3. JBI

    JBI
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    Does it post at all,any beeps? Also what kind of CPU are we talking about here? If it is an AMD you better start shopping for a new one because odds are when the fan on the CPU stopped it melted down.
     
  4. Teknic

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    Exactly what I was thinking :) God bless AMD's lack of thermal protection ;)

    Of course, I assume all the fans were replaced. But still, I have seen more AMD's die due to Power Supply failure. I've had to fix 3 computers in the past month that their PS (or PS fan) failed. 1 was an Intel P3, and it ran for over an hour then shut down... Works fine after replacing JUST the fan in the power supply. And 2 AMD's which needed new PS, and new CPU, and one needed a whole new Motherboard as well.
     
  5. JBI

    JBI
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    How old were the motherboards in the two AMD's??? . All the newer boards have the thermal protection on the board so it isn't really needed on chip.Not saying there shouldn't be any on the chip,just saying itisn't needed anymore. I had a power supply fail on me a few weeks ago and never had any damage done to my CPU .I switched to AMD a year and a half ago and I won't switch back to Intel,I guess I am too cheap.
     
  6. Boots

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    Replace your power supply.

    Replacing the fan isn't going to reverse the damage done to your power supply from overheating.
     
  7. MrAss

    MrAss
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    Of course the PS was replaced. As well as the cpu heatsink & fan, and casefan.

    It's a socket 7 (pentium mmx) But older.
     
  8. Teknic

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    How old, I don't know. Old enough obviously. It was a slot 1 design Athlon 1200+ for one of them (have it sitting in my room still)... The other was a socket style Athlon roughly the same speed. My guess is like 2 years. 3 tops?

    I will admit that AMD has some pretty amazing numbers when it comes to speed and such, but I just fear the reliability.... All I can think of is that Toms Hardware Guide video with the Duron, Athlon?, and the P4 and P3.. Both Intels were fine when cooling was gone, but the AMD's burned up too fast and got WAY too hot. :shrug:
     
  9. JBI

    JBI
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    I saw that video too,pretty scary stuff.I've stayed away from Intel mostly because of the cost.If it was alot lower I may be persuaded to change but at current prices my system would be just a fraction of what it is if I had to spend that kind of cash on a CPU and board.As it is right now I am only into my board,cpu and ram for 290 and I bought OCZ ram which is expensive.I did buy it used and the CPU used also (although the ram was new in package,I got it at half price).
     
  10. Teknic

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    Damn, I would've ended up getting that myself for a price like that :) Not bad at all
     
  11. Lowvez

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    Just because it is AMD doesn't mean that it will melt down...i'm sick of everyone relating all computer problems back to the CPU that is in it...chances are, if you power supply blows, it might do damage to alot of things, even if it is an intel chip under the sink. Intel's are NOT indestructible and i'm sure in alot of situations where yo guys say "the AMD just blew up" i'm sure the intel would have also.

    Unless you just have some garbage motherboard, heat sink and fan and you are running way too hot and the mobo does nothing then an AMD will work just fine or better then intel in most case scenarios. AMD's like to run hot, but for a reason...they PERFORM! for less of the cost!! Intel seems to be more worried about getting high clock speeds, and not actually make the chip perform.

    If you say "oh you better go out and buy another 1 if it's AMD crap"...well you know what, we can buy a chip, and if that fucks up sometime down the road, chances are a better one will be out by then and you'll probably still have paid less with both chips then you would have with 1 intel at the first purchase time...and you would have been perofrming better the whole time.

    Benchmarks don't lie. Intel in most cases just performs less then AMD...and reliability isn't a very big problem, you guys just make it out to be by posting isolated incidents like "my mom heard a clanking noise and now she's a satisfied intel consumer becuase the chip she had was AMD"...when you really never even tested it blah blah blah, for all we know you could have put the HSF on it wrong...i have nor do i know of anyone who has, had a problem with an AMD chip...hell i've had mine from stock of 166 FSB X 11 = 1.833 GHz to 220 FSB X 11 = 2.42GHz stable, and it was my motherboard that couldn't handle it...so don't tell me AMD's suck...if they are setup right, not using cheap $8 HSF's then they perform alot better then intel...and any motherboard you buy these days will shut down the computer if the chip gets too hot...
     
  12. JBI

    JBI
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    Hey Lowvez.I love AMD's .The reason I said that if it was one in this case he should start shopping for a new CPU is because of what the original post says. It says that when the PSU died the case and CPU fans both stopped running and the fact that he was running his harddrives off of a Promise card.Now for what that means to me. First of all because he was running the harddrives off of a promise card that tells me the motherboard is old.Most old socket A board have no thermal protection and if he had an AMD CPU on there and the fan on the CPU fan died while he was working with it there is a real good chance that the CPU overheated and died. If I hadn't read about the promise card I would not have posted what I said.
    I have had an AMD processor fry on me in the past and I know it takes only seconds.My XP2200+ literally only took 5-8 seconds to get hot enough that it would never function again.
     
  13. Lowvez

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    man...AMD's sure have come a long way then...because my Barton 2500+ is watercooling with a swiftech kit, and i monitored my temps and when i pulled the fan plug on the radiator and pulled the plug on the pump (ie. no cooled water circuilating, not even a sink and fan, just sitting there) The cpu temp went up about 3 degrees in 30 seconds or more...meh, AMD kicks ass for me!
     
  14. JBI

    JBI
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    3 degrees in 30 seconds but there was still cooled water in the waterblock,the heat put off by the CPU would have to work it's way threw the water and it would take alot longer than not having a fan on a heatsink. It is too bad AMD doesn't put some sort of thermal protection on their chips but as long as they don't it will be a harsh reality that without the fan... they just die. My XP2200+ would just be a year old now,not an old CPU by any means and it took just seconds to die.Needless to say I was pissed but nothing I could do.I just learned to keep a better eye on things,cooling is my biggest concern.
     
  15. Lowvez

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    i thought with all the heat being dissipated that it would heat the water up pretty quick...but meh, i guess you're right!
     
  16. Boots

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    With any semi-nice motherboard, your going to have thermal protection.
     
  17. Foster

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    nah my AMD 2200+ ran without fans for a good minute before I realized what was going on, and it works fine to this day..8 months later..
     
  18. Lowvez

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    Yah man for real...i think all these people with AMD problems are just noobs...or they just rushed their job.
     
  19. JBI

    JBI
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    Whatch this video.
    http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20010917/index.html
     
  20. Lowvez

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    that's a sweet vid...kind of drives home...but even like he said, if you install it correctly, and maintain it and just check it out every now and again...this problem should never arise...and by the time it does, it should be time for an upgrade anyways :)
     
  21. Teknic

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    Umm, dude... Don't go saying that I never tested a damn thing. I build $6000 computers all the time. I use top quality parts that ALL my customers demand. Not to mention, that the specific purpose for these computers means that AMD is not even an option. Intel only. So for my application, AMD is just crap. As far as not testing anything, I've never replaced a damn thing ever without testing it until I know for sure it's broke. I've been a computer geek since I was 7, and I am more comfortable than most computer techs are out there. When you have to build the computers I do, and produce a certain number of them in a week as I sometimes do, you have to normally deal with a buggy PCI card that is the main reason for the computer. A $2000 card.. Let's just say that not many people in Nova Scotia can build these computers in 3 hours, and I've got the thing put together, installed, and running the specific program, tearing 120 fps video from 16 sources all at once... Well... I know how to build these things, and tech them. If I didn't I'd be out of a job. Oh, and don't argue with me over the AMD being better for processing 120 fps x 16... I'm sure it can because I've seen the clock numbers... It's just, AMD is not supported by the $2000 card, and all the customers I've had don't like AMD anyway (or don't know what either means). I'd rather be able to run that system on a "out of the box" Intel setup, and have the system run at 90% processor load, and not heat up past 40 F in the case, than worry about the AMD having a really good HSF.

    So you can't sit there without knowing who you're talking to, what knowledge they do have, assuming shit, and expect everyone to believe you've got more knowledge than anyone. If I EVER went to a customer because they had a problem, didn't tech it out and say "Your whole CPU and MB is shot, it'll cost you $400 to replace it" they'd be pissed, and I'd be outta a job. I test everything that breaks. I go as far as using CPU's from other computers, different MB's, different RAM, & PS. And obviously is the board doesn't work with a different CPU, and the CPU doesn't work in another board, and the RAM doesn't work in another board, and the PS is shot... Well... Obviously everything fried.

    And for your information, everything was running at default on that specific AMD machine. The HSF was installed correctly... And the system ran for just over a year. So yeah, I bet it was the HSF being installed incorrectly because I know nothing about computers. Just because you don't know anyone that has had a problem with an AMD doesn't mean nobody in the world has. I like them as much as I like certain brands of computers....

    But, this is only how all this applies to me... And these are my opinions. And I have used AMD a long time ago... I think it was a AMD K6/2 333 with "3DNow!"..... It worked decent.... But I'm quite happy with my current P4 2.0A running at 2.6GHz and not needing anything but the factory Intel cooling fan to stay running at 40F degrees.. (until there are 1 80GB and 2 120GB hard drives in it......... :D )
     
  22. Boots

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    There is a big difference between a personal computer and a server.
     
  23. Teknic

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    It's $6000 with the $2000 video board in it, so $4000 is for the personal computer internals.... It's just a high end P4 3.0GHz computer with 2 120GB hard drives a 40GB hard drive, many add ons...

    Basically, all the parts are always on the "bleeding" edge of Technology.
     
  24. Boots

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    :wtf:

    What hardware are you using? Even with a $2000 graphics card, you'd be struggling to hit $4000 for a 3.0 Ghz P4 system...
     
  25. Teknic

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    My cost on things here...

    P4 3.0CG GHz 800MHz FSB - $305
    2x 512MB PC-400 DDR RAM - $256
    4U Rackmount Case - $245
    19" LCD Monitor - $875
    MSI 865P Neo2 MB (6728) - $169 (g/bit LAN, SATA Raid, IEEE 1394)
    Enermax 450W PS - $95
    Windows XP Pro - $192
    APC 500VA UPS - $140
    USB CD-RW (hate it) - $112
    2x 120GB Maxtor SATA HD - $290
    40GB Maxtor IDE drive - $75
    MSI Geforce FX5700 256MB, VIVO - $259

    Soon switching to 2x 200GB Maxtor's 8MB cache - $430

    Plus $257 for case cooling for HD's, add on controller cards, 8 port switch (10/100), and wireless KB & Mouse

    Of course, this comes to around $3300. Add on the $2000 video processor card for 120fps streaming video capture, and you got $5300 plus tax.. Comes to around $6095. But I should note, that's more around the top of the line. Most people don't need a 19" LCD, so the price can come down as much as $700 just by going with a 17" CRT.

    The only reason it's in a rack mount case is due to the wiring to the computer. Rather than making a huge mess, I get the customer to put in a rack, and I run my wires through it. Also necessary for some of the networked applications of the setup (large office building with many computers networked). Otherwise, drop $200 or so off for a normal mid tower case :)

    Of course, now I've really thrown everything off track here :) One last thing before I suggest on topic-ness again, is the system has 16 camera inputs, and you can dial in to the machine, or access it from the internet, or over the intranet, for viewing all cameras live. They record 120 fps, but for another $1000 or so, you can upgrade the card to support full 30 fps on all 16 inputs, rather than sharing the 120 fps.
     
  26. Boots

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    hmmmm.... I know someone who works in a building with a setup like that.. the whole place is viewable by camera over the internet.. interesting.
     

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